: How Not to Buy a Car
Some of you may know that the Korn-Heilner household recently acquired a new car – but we had a rather unpleasant time of it. Below are all the gory details, years from now I’ll be able to laugh at all this.
Jul 24 (Fri) –
– Late afternoon – Tyrone Wright, the sales person, confirms that the vehicle I want is available. I fax my Credit Card and have dealer put $xxxx dollars on Credit Card to put “hold” on vehicle
Jul 25 (Sat) –
– I purchase a RAV Limited 4×4, V4 engine, with QZ Package (which includes GPS), color Pacific Blue. VIN # 2T3BF31 V19W0 18793. The vehicle is not actually at the dealer, but is at a separate “inventory lot”. We pay in full, $xxxx dollars on my Master Card, $3500 credit per ‘cash for clunkers’ program, $xxxxx dollars via bank check.
– We turn over our old 91 Toyota Previa AWD per the “cash for clunkers” program. We provide dealer with full documentation including ownership papers and registration.
– I provide my insurance company with information so that the vehicle will be insured.
– There is a problem with the key. Mr. Wright states that ‘worst case scenario’ the vehicle will be ready Monday night.
– I am provided with a loaner car for the weekend – Toyota Corolla. Only permitted drivers are myself and my wife Lisa Korn.
– Credit card payment is booked.
Jul 27 (Mon)
– Mr. Wright calls me at work Monday AM – leaves message. “There is a problem”
– I call back and speak with Mr. Wright. There was a computer problem. The vehicle has already been sold to someone else. Mr. Wright believes there is an equivalent vehicle available at another dealer, but it is a different color (Silver Grey). There is some confusion in this conversation. He asks me if there are other colors that would be acceptable to me. I ask what colors are available. He says that the only one that is available is Silver Grey (so why ask me what other colors I would prefer, but I let that pass). I give my consent to Silver Grey.
– I speak to Mr. Wright late in the afternoon. The other dealer is not returning calls.
– Early evening, I speak to Toyota ‘Customer Experience Center’ and open up a ‘Case’ #0907137434. I am instructed to speak to the Customer Relations Manager. I phone the dealer and ask for the Customer Relations Manager, and am directed to Mark Catalano. I leave a message.
– My check has been cashed.
Jul 28 (Tue)
– Early AM Mr. Catalano calls me to obtain basic information, says he will get back to me.
– Late AM – Mr. Catalano calls, confirms that it is the dealer’s fault and thanked me for my patience. He says they are looking at other dealers to see what is available. He asks me if there is a color I would prefer other than Silver Grey – if so they would extend the search to other colors. (This somewhat contradicts Mr. Wright’s statement yesterday that they were searching all colors, but I let that pass). I state that Pacific Blue or Silver Grey are acceptable. Mr. Catalano says he will get back to me later during the day.
– Late PM – No call yet from Mr. Catalano so I call. Mr. Catalano states that other dealer has returned call. It is not definite yet, it looks like the other vehicle is available. He will call tomorrow.
Jul 29 (Wed)
– No word all morning or early afternoon.
– Late PM – I receive a call from the Sales Manager Mr. Paco (I’m not sure if this was his first or last name, but I will refer to him as Mr. Paco). He states they couldn’t locate a vehicle. “We looked 200 miles in all directions.” No apology. I ask “What are you proposing”. He offers to return my money. There is no offer to compensate me for any additional expenses I may incur. I explained that returning my money was not acceptable. I asked what other options were available, Mr. Paco refused to provide any other alternatives. At this time I presented Mr. Paco with several alternative options that I felt would be fair:
o Provide me will a substitute vehicle until the original vehicle could be ordered from the factory. I stated that the dealer had a RAV4 with a V6 engine (but that otherwise had the same features I was looking for). They could provide this as a substitute – with the understanding that all my family members would be allowed to drive this.
o As a second option, I stated that they could sell me the V6 version. However, the V6 gets 3 MPG less than the V4 that I originally ordered, so I would need compensation for the additional expenses I would assume over the lifetime of the vehicle.
o I also state that I will be willing to listen to other proposals.
I also tell Mr. Paco that if the situation is not resolved by Thursday that I would be filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau, the NJ Department of Consumer Affairs, and the NJ Attorney General’s office.
– Early Evening – I speak with Toyota Customer Experience. I explained the situation.
Jul 30 (Thu)
– Early AM – I spoke again to Mr. Paco. I asked if he had any other offers. He repeated his offer to return my money. I asked if the dealer would compensate me for the additional expenses I would incur as a result of this- for example would the dealer pay for the interest I was paying on the bank loan I took out to finance the vehicle. He said I would need to speak to the General Manager.
– Early AM – I spoke to Jeff Brown, the General Manager. I repeated my position that returning my money was not acceptable. I stated that I was trying to work with them and I would be open to a reasonable solution. He stated that my second option from last night (selling the V6 with compensation for additional operating costs) was unacceptable to him because “We cannot take a loss”. The first option was also unacceptable to him because they could not give us a loaner with dealer plates. I stated that it did not have to be this particular vehicle, that we would accept any reasonable substitute – my only requirements were that the vehicle has GPS and an equivalent amount of interior space. For example, a 2WD would be OK – as long as things did not drag out into the winter. Mr. Brown said he understood my position. He said he would renew the search for another RAV4 – he verified that we were looking for a RAV 4×4, V4, with the QZ Package (which has the GPS). He said he would contact me tomorrow AM – and that if I did not hear from him to please call. I decided to give the dealer one more day before ‘escalating’
– Late PM – Mr. Catalano called, said calling me was “on his list” of things to do. I told him I had spoken to Mr. Brown.
Jul 31 (Fri)
– I did not hear from Mr. Brown all morning. I called the dealer about noon. Mr. Brown was not available. I left a message with the receptionist.
– Late afternoon – I leave voice message.
Aug 1 (Sat)
– Early PM (about 2) I called the dealer again and requested to speak to Mr. Brown. He did not pick up, so I left a voice message. I asked him to call me. I stated that I hoped we could resolve the situation in an amicable manner, but that if he did not get back to me, then I would take the actions I would be contacting the Better Business Bureau, the NJ Dept of Consumer Affairs, and the NJ Attorney General’s Office.
Aug 2 (Sun)
– I file complaints on-line with BBB & New Jersey Department of Consumer Affairs
Aug 3 (Mon)
– I have discussions with NJ Attorney General’s Office, NJ State Police, and Wood-Ridge Police. The gist of things is that this is a civil issue, not a legal issue. Apparently it’s not against the law to sell something you don’t own. The conversation with the NJ State Police had it’s amusing moments. The detective on the other end told me that he recently had a horrible experience himself purchasing a Mercedes – and that all car dealers are crooks.
Aug 4 (Tue)
– I have a very long conversation with my brother in law Ken, who is a lawyer, to figure out what my options are. There are no really good options available to me, but if I followed him, the best approach is to get my money back, purchase a vehicle at another dealer, and if I am unable to get the cash for clunkers, hen I can take them to court for damages. I am dizzy.
Aug 5 (Wed)
– I leave yet anther voice message with Mr. Brown. No return call.
– My wife, Lisa Korn speaks with Mr. Catalano, advising him of the situation. He says he will call her back.
Aug 6 (Thu)
– Mr. Catalano speaks with Lisa. He states that the dealer is willing to return our money and clunker. Lisa states that this is not acceptable since too much time has passed and they have had our clunker for too long to return. Mr. Catalano starts repeating his offer, Lisa says (to the effect) “You are not listening to me that’s no good.” The conversation ends very unpleasantly, Lisa is very upset.
Aug 8 (Sat)
– I visit the dealer in person and speak to Mr. Paco. Mr. Paco states that he was expecting me on Friday and he has a check and the keys to the clunker. Since we never accepted this offer, how they got the idea that I was supposed to stop by on Friday is an unexplained mystery. No apology.
– Mr. Paco & I & Mr. Catalano have a very long conversation. I review the situation. I state that we have a non-cancelable contract and that they have not lived up to the terms of the contract. I then review their offer. They confirm that they are not willing to compensate me for any additional expenses or damages I may incur; in particular they will not compensate me if I am unable to get into the cash for clunkers program. The specific example I gave was that I drive the clunker home and on the way there is an accident and the clunker is totaled. I am then out $3500. I re-phrase their offer as “You want me to pay for your mistake”. They say that they would not characterize it that way. Mr. Paco keeps going back to the point that I issued an “ultimatum” that I needed my specific vehicle by Wednesday. He is obviously confused. I try to go back through the timeline and explain that the “ultimatum” was that we resolve the situation, not give me the specific vehicle. He also forgets that we spoke on Thursday and that I then spoke to Mr. Brown. He states that he was not aware of the content of my conversations with Mr. Brown.
– Regardless, I give them a new option. They can acquire a RAV4 with a slightly reduced feature set (QY package) that has everything I need except for the GPS. I have already located such a vehicle at another dealer (Caldwell Toyota). The dealer will then install a GPS. I will pay the same price I was going to pay for my original vehicle. Mr. Paco states that this may work but he cannot do anything until Monday when Mr. Brown returns. Mr. Paco shakes my hand.
– One very surreal incident – I mention that Mr. Catalano that he spoke to my wife on Thursday. Mr. Catalano said (to the effect that) “Yes, we had a very nice discussion”.
– No apology.
Aug 10 (Mon)
– No call all day long. I call Mr. Paco at 4:00. “Yeah, we’re working on it, I gotta talk to Jeff”. Of course he’s had all day to talk to Jeff.
– I call Toyota Customer Experience and fill in details
Aug 11 (Tue)
– No call all day. Leave message on Mr. Paco’s voice mail. NOTE: It turns out that his full name is Paco Ramirez, I will continue to refer to him as Paco.
– Try to reach Jeff Brown. Get put on hold for 10 minutes.
– Write letter to Akio Toyoda, President of Toyota
Aug 12 (Wed)
– No message from Paco
– Try calling early afternoon, he’s not there. I don’t bother leaving message
– I leave long somewhat angry message on Mr. Catalano’s voice mail. Basically I say that I have not heard back from Paco and I need to know what’s going on. Are they going to live up to our agreement from Saturday or not?
– I send letter to President of Toyota via FedEx. It will reach Japan on Monday
– Late afternoon I try calling Paco again. He is in. He says that they have identified the vehicle and are working on a trade with the other dealer. It will be Silver Grey. Apparently when dealers acquire vehicles from other dealers they do a swap. Paco says he will call me by end of business day – 5:00 – or first thing tomorrow.
Aug 13 (Thu)
– No message from Paco all day. It is clear that he simply can not be relied on to communicate information in a timely fashion
– I call Paco late afternoon. He says they have worked out trade with other dealer and vehicle will be in tomorrow. Again confirms color is Silver Grey. I ask about GPS system. He says I can pick up vehicle and have it done myself (not sure about that) or they can do it. I say I want them to do it. Paco says they can order GPS after vehicle comes in – GPS should be delivered by Monday. I tell Paco I will call tomorrow to confirm.
– I get a response from the NJ Department of Consumer Affairs. If I want, I can take the dealer into binding arbitration to settle the situation. It’s too late for that.
Aug 14 (Fri)
– 10:00 I call dealer and ask for Paco. I get his voice mail. No point in leaving msg.
– 11:00 & 12:00 same thing
– 12:30 – I realize I’ve been asking the wrong question. I call dealer and ask if Paco is in today. He’s out. (Of course, Paco did not tell me this when we spoke yesterday.) Who is taking his place today? Orlando. OK, let me speak to Orlando. I get his voice mail – except his in box is full so I can’t leave a message. I get routed back to receptionist. I say Orlando’s voice mail is full. She says wait a minute – I get sent back to Orlando’s voice mail, it’s still full. I get back to receptionist. I give her basics of situation and ask that he call me back.. Receptionist says she will give him message.
– 3:30 – still no response. I call again. Same song & dance with voice mail. Receptionist says she’ll give him another message,
– 5:00 – I insist on speaking to Orlando. I have been trying to reach the Sales Manager since 10:00 this AM. Orlando is very busy. I understand but I just need 5 minutes of his time. Please put him on. Orlando is very busy, he is only Sales Manager on floor today and it’s been very busy. I ask receptionist to leave him another note.
Aug 15 (Sat)
– 9:15 I call dealer and ask for Paco. Paco picks up. “Are you coming in Tuesday like we agreed?” Of course we didn’t agree to anything, but if the car will be ready on Tuesday, that’s great. I double check. Is this the same car I showed you last Saturday? No it’s a different vehicle. Let’s confirm. Is it a RAV4 4 Cylinder Limited with QY Package that includes power driver’s seat, and you will put in GPS? “Yes”
– I call Toyota Customer Experience and fill in details
Aug 17 (Mon)
– Early evening – I get a call from Mr. Wright (the original sales person) that my vehicle has arrived. I ask if the GPS was installed. He doesn’t know. Did Paco speak to you about this? No. So maybe it’s ready, maybe it isn’t.
Aug 18 (Tue)
– 5:00 – I try to reach Paco to see if the vehicle is ready. No answer. Even though I know it’s pointless, I leave a message.
– Next I call Mr. Wright. The vehicle is ready. Was the GPS installed? Yes,
– 6:00 – I arrive at the dealer. Tyrone shows me the vehicle. It is Pacific Blue, not Silver Grey like Paco said. That’s OK. Mr. Wright takes my license to get the paper work going while I acquaint myself with the vehicle. I cannot figure out how to turn the radio off. Mr. Wright comes back. He is not familiar with the after market GPS and cannot help me.
– Much waiting around. I have to go back to my insurance company, plus my insurance company needs to send information back to the dealer regarding my clunker. Apparently dealer needs to verify that my vehicle was insured for the last year – which was 2008/08/18 to 2009/08/18. However, I stopped the insurance on my vehicle after I turned it over to dealer on July 25th. Dealer modifies the initial dates to cover the period of July 2008 to July 2009.
– I have yet one last contentious discussion. While I am going thought the paperwork, one item stands out. If the Cash for Clunkers program runs out of money, then I am responsible for the $3500. As far as I know, the money which gets handed out is on a first come first serve basis; in other words, the odds on getting reimbursed are much greater if you submitted the paperwork sooner rather than later. So if I miss the cut off for approval because of the delay in getting my vehicle; then needless to say I will be very unhappy. At this point another gentleman enters the discussion. At the time I did not know who this person was, Mr. Wright later told me that it was the owner. At any event, this person states that this is the way things are, and if I am not happy then he will tear up the agreement and give me back my money and clunker. I state that there is no way I’m ever going to be happy, they put me through a “month of hell” (I believe those were my exact words) and in the end I did not get the vehicle I wanted. After some back and forth it turns out that his concern is that Mr. Wright gets good marks when I fill out his evaluation. In other words, if I do not agree to give Mr. Wright a good evaluation, he will cancel the agreement. He says that if I have any complaints I can fill them in the comments section. Since I was going to give Mr. Wright a good evaluation anyway, I say no problem.
– One nice touch. They had thrown out/shredded the registration for the clunker. Fortunately we had duplicate at home. We faxed it to dealer. For a while there was mix up at dealer and it was not delivered to Mr. Wright. Mr. Wright volunteered to follow me home to pick up registration so I would not have to make another trip back. Eventually, the faxed copy made it’s way to Mr. Wright.
– 9:00 – After three excruciating hours, I finally leave with my vehicle.
Aug 19 (Wed)
– Vehicle appears to be working per spec.
– I go through paperwork, they did not give me the bill of sale. I call up Mr. Wright. He says he will mail it to me. He also says they did not receive information from my insurance company that the new vehicle was insured. I already have a copy that my insurance company e-mail’d me yesterday. I offer to e-mail it to the dealer. Mr. Wright gives me an e-mail address. cfischer@east.4u – it does not work. I try cfischer@east4u.com. That too does not work, so I fax it as well. I call back and verify that he did get the info.
– Hopefully one last call to Toyota Customer Service.
– I leave a very negative review of East Coast Toyota on Google Maps.
Aug 20 (Thu)
– There is a glitch with the after market GPS – when you first turn it on a message is displayed that a ground wire to the emergency brake is not properly connected. Nonetheless, the GPS does appear to be working. I figure out how to turn off the radio, although the process is clumsy. Also, it is very difficult to mute and un-mute the sound.
Aug 21 (Fri)
– On reviewing the contract, I notice that there is a factory rebate for $4500. Is this the Cash for Clunkers? If so, this is wrong, the 1991 Previa All Trac only gets a $3500 rebate. What will happen when this is processed? Will the government give the dealer $3500 or nothing at all? And will the dealer attempt to hit me for anther $1000 (and break our deal)?
Sep 11 (Fri)
– We have not received the permanent registration yet. I call the dealer. They say it is on the way.
Sep 14 (Mon)
– The temporary registration expires Wed. We call the dealer again. There has been a problem. They ask if Friday is good. Of course it is not, since we will not be able to use the vehicle for three days. They state that they will “expedite the process”.
Sep 16 (Wed)
– I call the dealer the afternoon. They have the registration – of course they did not call me. I go pick it up, and the dealer puts our old plates on.
Sep 17 (Thu)
– I call Toyota Customer Experience yet again and explain my concerns about the over charge on the Cash for Clunkers rebate. I also tell then about the last minute experience getting the registration.
Sep 24th (Thu)
– I get a voice message from Lou Mendez – the Financial Manager (?) from the dealer. “We understand you are unhappy with your experience. How can we help you?”
Sep 25th (Fri)
– I receive a nice birthday present – a check for $500 from Toyota to thank me for my loyalty. I would gladly give this up to see the entire management of East Coast Toyota fired.
Sep 28th (Mon)
– I return Lou Mendez’s call. “We are customer oriented, so we want you to be happy about your purchase.“ He will close out the case with the Better Business Bureau, since they have now sold me the vehicle. He also wants me to come in and talk things over. Fat chance of that. I tell him that they put me through 3 weeks of hell, what can you possibly do to make things right. He offers me some coupons for a free oil change. I already got those in the mail. He says can you tell me exactly what happened. I say I will e-mail him this document.
Oct 1st (Thu)
– I e-mail this document to Lou Mendez. To date this is the last I have heard from East Coast Toyota.
I can report that except for a slight rattle on the after market GPS we are very happy with our RAV 4. Eventually I will be able to laugh about this….
= = = = = = == = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = == = =
Meanwhile, I will be hither and yonder this month and next.
Oct 24, Saturday, 8-12 PM – The British Invasion, Jimmy’s Rock Cafe, 110 Moonachie Ave, Moonachie, NJ 201 939-1244
This is the third in a series of rock & roll extravaganzas, starting with the Beatle’s Show back in July & the Woodstock Retrospective in September. This time around we will be doing the British Invasion (minus the Beatles). So if you want to hear the Kinks, Freddie and the Dreamers, Petula Clark, and all those great tunes, stop on down. The last two shows were totally sold out, so if you want to sit I recommend getting reservations. $15/ $25 VIP. They serve dinner as well.
http://www.myspace.com/jimmysrockcafe
http://www.jimmysrockcafe.com/contacts.html
http://www.makinmusicny.com/events/event/show?id=2920263%3AEvent%3A23521
http://www.nikkiarmstrong.com/
Oct 30, Friday, 7:00-10 PM – Church Street Kitchen, 12 Church St , Montclair, NJ 973 233-0216
It may be cold outside but it’ll be cozy inside. Have some great food and hang out as I boogie-woogie, rock & roll, and do the second side of Abbey Road.
http://www.churchstreetkitchen.com/
Nov 14, Saturday, 8-9:30 PM – The Lunatic Fringe, Piano’s Bar & Grill, 36 Broad St, Bloomfield, NJ 07003 (973) 743-7208
Don’t come to see me, come to see the show. I’m continually amaxed at how these guys come up with one funny bit after another; last Saturday’s show was really, really funny.
http://www.pianosbarandgrill.com/
http://www.lunaticfringeimprov.com/
Nov 20, Friday, 8-12 PM – The Attachments, Franklin Tavern, 97-99 Franklin Ave. West Orange, NJ 862-224-4063
I’m be doing an evening of rock & rock with my ‘homies’ Bob Mellman, Marty Field, and guest drummer Michael Trullinger from El Kabong. ‘The Franklin’ has a relaxed down home atmosphere and there is no cover.
http://www.pianosbarandgrill.com/
http://www.lunaticfringeimprov.com/